I think Eldar are going to radically change to be large troop based forces. So what do you think of the trrop choices in 5th ed?
- Rangers/Pathfinders
- Wraithguard
- Jetbikes
- Dire Avengers
- Guardians
Pete
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deFL0 |
5th Ed - Eldar |
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So my Eldar army will need a serious rebuild in 5th ed. My list (much like a lot of Eldar) is pretty light on troops. (I use two min jetbike squads). So about
as light on troops as possible:
I think Eldar are going to radically change to be large troop based forces. So what do you think of the trrop choices in 5th ed? - Rangers/Pathfinders - Wraithguard - Jetbikes - Dire Avengers - Guardians Pete |
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ZiggyQubert |
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I feel like dire Avengers in transports and jetbikes are good for going out and capturing objectives, while wraithguard and pathfinders would be mutch better
used to hold objectives neer your starting location.
I feel my eldar will change to something more along the lines of this... Farseer / eldrad Autarc? Harliquins Firedragons in serpent? Pathfinders Pathfinders Dire Avengers DireAvengers Bikes? Prism Prism Something along thoes lines
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- Brookie |
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Ronen Warrior |
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With the changes to skimmers and shots counting as glancing only on a 5+, I think you'll see a return of warwalkers (especially with the new flanking rule,
since they have scout right?)
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Ronen Warrior |
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With regard to troops, i think dare avengers (in a servant) and bikes will be the shiznit. Avengers for their "survivability" in h2h, and both for
their speed to snatch objectives at the end of the game.
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Mannahnin |
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Guardian Defenders with heavy weapon platforms, and likely an Avatar for Fearlessness and counter-assault, will also be good in the role of holding your own
objectives. Allen Hernandez (Blackmoor on Dakka Dakka and TWF) did very well at last year's GTs with a mixed shooty Eldar list featuring this combo + some
mobile elements.
"At the center of the Universe is a loving heart that continues to beat and
that wants the best for every person. Anything that we can do to help foster the intellect and spirit and emotional growth of our fellow human beings, that is our job. Those of us who have this particular vision must continue against all odds. Life is for service. - Fred Rogers (a.k.a., "Mister Rogers") 1928-2003 The Yuku text/post editor is a piece of shit. Let me say that again: The Yuku text/post editor is a piece of shit.
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ZiggyQubert |
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Ronen -
As of the rules I saw it's not "counting as glancing only on a 5+" its Ignore the shot on a 5+
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- Brookie |
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adirangan |
What is important? | ||
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Where does this chain of logic break?
A) 5th edition lists will feature many units of troops. B) Troops are (in general) easy to kill, and so resilience will be important C) Thus players will favor big units of troops (orcs) or feel-no-pain dudes (nurgle/necrons) or dudes protected by skimmers (dire avengers) or cover (pathfinders) D) That means that the metagame choice will be scoring units that can handle resilient troops. For example, one my consider daemonettes or genestealers. E) That means that the poor metagame choices will be units vulnerable to such units. For example, wraithlords might take a back seat due to the preponderance of rending. F) Another poor metagame choice will be predators and other armor 12-13 anti-tank vehicles (like dreadnaughts), as many troop choices sport antitank weaponry capable of taking out these point sinks. G) So, given that most armies will not feature a dedicated suite of anti-tank weaponry (instead favoring anti-troop weaponry), super-resilient vehicles will make a comeback. In other words, the orc horde or the nurgle horde may not have any way to deal with a monolith (or two land-raiders) effectively (remember that s8 power fists and missile launchers cannot destroy armor 14 vehicles any more). H) So perhaps Fire Prims and gaurdian squads (with indirect fire template weapons) will be the best heavy support choices? The template weapon dark reaper exarch doesn't seem bad either (but I don't know how expensive he is). I) Thus, once you have those heavy support options, your army may naturally take a "come to me" attitude, and you can take the appropriate HQ and troops (decent counterassault, and one or two tiny units of jetbikes to grab far away objectives seems necessary to me as well). J) So does that mean 2-3 units of defend/bladestorm avengers in wave serpents + 2 units of jetbikes + 1 unit of harlequins (which can ride in one of the avengers' transports if necessary)? Incidentally, pathfinders just don't seem good to me. Do they kill 3 orks a turn? With enemy assault units "running" at them, the pathfinders may not last long. |
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Mannahnin |
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I think jetbikes + Warlock with spear and Destructor will be a good objective-grabbing unit, which can also effectively damage horde and vehicular targets.
Regarding point G, remember that the leaked PDF shows vehicles as giving up half points if they're damaged at all (even Weapon Destroyed) at the end, like in 3rd edition. Combine this with them being non-scoring, and there may really be no need to kill those really tough vehicles, as long as you can deal with any transported contents.
"At the center of the Universe is a loving heart that continues to beat and
that wants the best for every person. Anything that we can do to help foster the intellect and spirit and emotional growth of our fellow human beings, that is our job. Those of us who have this particular vision must continue against all odds. Life is for service. - Fred Rogers (a.k.a., "Mister Rogers") 1928-2003 The Yuku text/post editor is a piece of shit. Let me say that again: The Yuku text/post editor is a piece of shit.
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ZiggyQubert |
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adirangan wrote: They should kill 2-3 orcs a turn, they should cause 2-3 wounds on just about anything (thats a squad of 5 mind you) and they do force a unit to come to them to kill them (as shooting won't be verry effective) pluss they can get away if necessary (they ignore cover when moving) true they will vaporize in CC but otherwise they should be good (although bikes may be better)
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- Brookie |
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deFL0 |
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Yes and no you still have to shut down things like leman russes or they are going to absolutely trash you in 5th ed. Plus land raiders (especially crusaders)
are really going to be difficult to shut down and are likely to drop a very potent payload on your front door step, especially with assult ramps.
With Eldar: - Rangers/Pathfinders - Are going to be great quarter holders, although I don't think cleanse is going to be a major mission. That said, I think snipers get a big boon in 5th ed because they pick up rending. I'm honestly not sure how that affects Pathfinders as they already basically have that, but from a point persepctive they can now choose to be pinned an get an additional -1 cover save. So even in woods they are a 2+ cover. - Wraithguard - So Brookie is slowly convincing me these guys are actually a pretty strong choice. With the screening rule I can see walking them up behind a guardian meat shield and unleashing some fury when they are close. - Jetbikes - First off they are much more resilient than most people give them credit for. They are T4, 3+ save with a twin linked assault 2 S4 weapon. Plus they can pick up a 3+ cover save, move really fast and get a warlock. I think with LOS cover, you really are not going to be able to run that many small squads any more. Instead, I think you run really big squads and do tactics like fortune and turbo boost 12 jetbikes and a warlocks. Then move your entire army up behind them. Jetbikes can then jump over the wall to shoot and then jump back for safety, or if you are playing someone like marines and don;t care if they get the 4+ save you can just shoot through them. This might be the way to use dire avengers in waveserpents too as I don't think you will be able to shoot under the wave serpent anymore, so a jet bike screen allows you to shoot at enemies with a higher level of protections, and not take any return fire. - Dire Avengers - I expect the fish of fury tactics to be pretty prevailent, also defend and such gets a lot better if you are trying to hold objectives. Although Eldar in general are going to have a tough time as they can lose their exarchs and become a pretty lame squad. This fact alone might increase the use of phoenix lords, as the redundancy might be key for certain squads. - Guardians - I think these are the unsung heros of next edition of Eldar. To me Large squads of guardians and an Avatar are going to be a corner stone of many Eldar lists. Fearless guardians can really mob a unit up indefinitely, and 8 points a pop they are basically expendable. Also, troops being scoring to the last man is often going to mean the warlock. Another intersting concept I've been kicking around is the thought of storm guardians in falcons. Not really a power unit on it's own, but if you do something like toss a cheap autarch or fuegan in there with a fusion fun you have a unit with 3 melta guns, a reliable delivery system, and a unit that it really maneuverable, resilient, can tank shock units off of objects and score. Seems like a strong tactic to me. Although falcons are much less resilient, I think their achillies heel is going to be Tua. I believe their path finders can adjust a unit's cover save, make falcons tin cans to things like rail guns. Although, I kinda like that pathfinders are going to have a more uses as I like the concept of them. Then again Tua aren't goign to be a much used army IMO. Anyway, I think we are going to be seeing a lot of Eldar armies switch over to fish of fury tactics including 11 guardians with a scatter laser in a wave serpent. Another point on Eldar is tank hunting AV 14. To me you really only have a couple units. Wraith guard, fire dragons, warlocks, fire prisms Autrachs, swooping hawks and bright lances on the waveserpent. This is why I think you will see a lot of waveserpents, as the twin linked bright lance will be invaluable, and the loss of the defensive weapon means most people now have the points to spend on it. Pete |
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ZiggyQubert |
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Although Eldar in general are going to have a tough time as they can lose their exarchs and become a pretty lame squad Keep in mind that the Exarcs usaly have a 3+ save where the regular dudes have a 4+ so the exarch is better protected, and this might actualy come into play now...
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- Brookie |
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