Strength 1 killing blow???

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VectorAWX3	Strength 1 killing blow???	Lead	[-]
Posts: 22420 (07/23/08 17:36:55) Moderator More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Tags : None Ok.. so poppa nurgle casts Miasma on himself. All enemy in base are S1. He's T6. So you can't wound him... or can you? He gets charged by a Bret character with KB vs. large targets, or that Khorne guy that can KB large targets. They hit him, and roll a 6 to wound. Does it bounce off? Does it kill him, even though it can't wound him? What gives? ------------------------------ I'm the Mega Battle Champion, and Rob and Kevin are not. :P
Kevin J Coleman		#1	[-]
Posts: 2128 (07/24/08 02:32:26) More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I wound say no, because you did not cause a wound. Just like poison does not auto wound unless you actually hit... Kevin out Common Goblins iz da best!
ZiggyQubert		#2	[-]
Posts: 598 (07/24/08 04:58:10) More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Actualy killing blow makes no mention of a wound - "If a model with the killing blow special rule rolls a 6 when rolling to wound in Close combat, he automaticly slays his opponent." so no wound is required. ------------------ - Brookie
Ampao		#3	[-]
Posts: 40 (07/24/08 05:57:41) More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Yeah, but is the attacker still allowed to roll in the first place? Since his Str is not enough to wound Papa Nurgle? interesting point btw.
Cankre		#4	[-]
Posts: 239 (07/24/08 06:49:42) More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Absolutely interested in this debate! I can see it going both ways, and both to me are valid arguments. "If a model with the killing blow special rule rolls a 6 when rolling to wound in Close combat, he automaticly slays his opponent." The when rolling to wound is the key to the rule...do you even throw any dice if you cannot wound a model?
VectorAWX3		#5	[-]
Posts: 22421 (07/24/08 06:57:56) Moderator More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	You know, the funny thing is that I DO throw dice when I can't wound a model. It's a matter of principle. (not that anything I have gets killing-blow) ------------------------------ I'm the Mega Battle Champion, and Rob and Kevin are not. :P
Punk20		#6	[-]
Posts: 163 (07/24/08 07:23:12) More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Well I think you still roll to wound regardless... Lets take two new players for example. Roll to hit as usual...they check the chart and see what they need. Roll to wound as usual...again they check the chart and see what they need to wound... They find out that the hit could not have wounded the model, however killing blow, by the way its worded is interesting. So you are still rolling to wound, and then checking to see if you actaully wound. At first I say it works like poison with needing higher than a 6 to hit, therefore making the poison not work....but I'm not so sure now.
Lord Mekri		#7	[-]
Posts: 4 (07/24/08 07:27:07) More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	i dont recall seeing anywhere that you can't roll the wound-roll die, just because you cant actually wound isomething. most would just skip it, but with KB, you have a reason to roll. you dont need to wound to get killing blow, at least based on the description of killing blow.
bdickj		#8	[-]
Posts: 83 (07/24/08 07:32:47) More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	There's no reason to roll because you can't wound. I'd assume: If it says "when rolling to wound" I would assume this means you have the possiblity to WOUND, not KB. You don't roll the dice as implied by that line if you don't have the possibility to wound something.
bdickj		#9	[-]
Posts: 84 (07/24/08 07:38:27) More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Adding to that, let's look at other rolls in the game: Leadership 5 Goblins are hit by the -d3 LD spell from Slaanesh, and then by the Masque, making them -4 Leadership. Now they are LD 1. Then the Slaanesh caster casts Slicing Shards on the unit. Since it's LD is 1, it cannot possibly pass an LD check to avoid being hit by the slicing shards, and thus, the entire unit is removed as a casualty. (shards keeps going til they pass.) You obviously don't roll because you cannot succeed. KB is dependant on your ability to wound, not your ability to hit. That's poison. If you can't wound, you don't roll.
andrewweakland		#10	[-]
Posts: 83 (07/24/08 07:45:38) More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	bdickj wrote: You obviously don't roll... If you can't wound, you don't roll. Um, having trouble finding this in my rulebook. Please direct me to the page...
Larro		#11	[-]
Posts: 2319 (07/24/08 07:52:26) More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I tend to think you always roll to wound once you hitl. There's nothing anywhere saying you don't roll just because you can't wound. Where's Ed when we need him? - Larry On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.
Kevin J Coleman		#12	[-]
Posts: 2129 (07/24/08 07:57:55) More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Actualy killing blow makes no mention of a wound - "If a model with the killing blow special rule rolls a 6 when rolling to wound in Close combat, he automaticly slays his opponent." so no wound is required. ------------------I don't believe Poison says you need to hit, it simply says something like if you roll a unmodified '6'. Though GW ruled you actually need to hit. Don't have the rulebook in front of me though. Kevin out Common Goblins iz da best!
VectorAWX3		#13	[-]
Posts: 22423 (07/24/08 08:13:26) Moderator More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	bdickj wrote: Adding to that, let's look at other rolls in the game: Leadership 5 Goblins are hit by the -d3 LD spell from Slaanesh, and then by the Masque, making them -4 Leadership. Now they are LD 1. Then the Slaanesh caster casts Slicing Shards on the unit. Since it's LD is 1, it cannot possibly pass an LD check to avoid being hit by the slicing shards, and thus, the entire unit is removed as a casualty. (shards keeps going til they pass.) You obviously don't roll because you cannot succeed. KB is dependant on your ability to wound, not your ability to hit. That's poison. If you can't wound, you don't roll. Don't you always get an insane courage test, regardless of modifiers or the situation? I don't see why you wouldn't. ------------------------------ I'm the Mega Battle Champion, and Rob and Kevin are not. :P
Ampao		#14	[-]
Posts: 41 (07/24/08 08:28:10) More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Page 29: Roll a D6 for each hit scored and cosult the To Wound chart above. Find the weapon's strength and look down that column. Then scan along the row for the targets Toughness. The number is the minimum score on a D6 needed to score a wound. (heres the interesting part:) Where the value is 'N' this indicates that the target is too tough for you to hurt. 'N' stands for no effect - or no chance! This means to me, if there is "no chance" for it to wound, theres also no chance to kill it with KB. But you still get to roll. as RAW, i guess you still get to KB, but for the spirit of the rules, no for me.
VectorAWX3		#15	[-]
Posts: 22424 (07/24/08 08:42:36) Moderator More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Where the value is 'N' this indicates that the target is too tough for you to hurt. Good enough for me! Is Killing-Blow "hurting" the enemy? Hell yes! You can't hurt it, so you can't killing-blow it. Good catch. Anyone care to argue the contrary? ------------------------------ I'm the Mega Battle Champion, and Rob and Kevin are not. :P
The Gunslinger		#16	[-]
Posts: 8661 (07/24/08 08:46:45) The Anomaly More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I'm going to throw my full weight into this argument, all of 2 cents. If you can't wound it, then no KB.
VectorAWX3		#17	[-]
Posts: 22425 (07/24/08 08:50:19) Moderator More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Lou, I'm saying that it's not that you can't "wound" it. It's that you can't "hurt" it. Since "killing-blow" is a subset of "hurt", then you can't do either. And you're still way too new to get 2 cents. We'll give you one cent to play with. ------------------------------ I'm the Mega Battle Champion, and Rob and Kevin are not. :P
andrewweakland		#18	[-]
Posts: 84 (07/24/08 08:55:24) More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Actually, killing blow says you 'slay' your opponent, not hurt, wound etc. As it is possible to be dead without being 'hurt' i say it stands :-D Aren't there only about 2 possible ways for this to happen ever anyway?
Punk20		#19	[-]
Posts: 164 (07/24/08 08:56:28) More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Where the value is 'N' this indicates that the target is too tough for you to hurt Thats good enough for me
Larro		#20	[-]
Posts: 2321 (07/24/08 10:58:40) More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Wow, you guys were so ready to go by the RAW and take a big shit all over IoN, but you won't let the Bretonnian Lord in this one freak instance wipe out Big Papa? What a bunch of lameasses. At least be consistent with your application of RAW. If you play by the RAW, this is a no-brainer and the answer is you can KB him. The book says you roll to wound for your successful hits, and consult the chart. All killing blow says is that you need a 6 on your to wound roll, NOT that you need a 6 when you are eligible to wound the target. The "N" in the chart isn't even relevant if you're following RAW. If you don't play by the RAW and try to think it out from a more logical standpoint, you can't KB him. The end. - Larry On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.

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Strength 1 killing blow???

Strength 1 killing blow???